Scientology keeps saying "as a policy" disconnection does not exsist. This is what is known as a half truth. Their public relation (PR) people must have taught Bill Clinton some of their PR policy durring Clinton's infamous "I did not have sex..." period. While as a "policy" it may not exist, the application of this policy exists to this day. I have relatives who disconnected from me in 2006. I have not heard one peep from them to this day. Sue in the real world a half truth is a lie. You have been telling half truths for so long, I'm not sure you can tell the difference anymore between a true statement and a lie. Wake up! Get honest. You'll feed better for it.

Anit = Anti

For more info:

www.youfoundthecard.com

I worked as Scientology staff for over 27 years, and there absolutely is a church policy of disconnection. Hubbard authored the policy and it is called "PTSness and Disconnection" and all Scientologists who need to apply the policy are trained on it. I can only guess Ms. Taylor misspoke or was misquoted or simply goofed. Disconnection is absolutely an option that L. Ron Hubbard gives Scientologists, as a way to allow Scientologists carry on as Scientologists "in peace" from the harping of people who disagree and oppose the Scientologists participating in Scientology. In theory disconnection is NOT an automatic. In practice the movement is unchecked in its overzealous application of the disconnection option and the movement has racked up tens of thousands of broken up family relationships. Disconnection is way more severe in that it disallows ALL "good roads and good weather" communication which other religions which practice excommunication, other religions still allow "good weather" communication to excommunicated members. Hubbard's disconnection is a complete cutting of communication, and the policy is used WAY too frequently and incorrectly. Next time someone interviews Ms Taylor an intelligent question to ask her is if the movement plans to issue any amnesties. An international amnesty is one of the church's options, and an international amnesty would undo all the false and wrong "suppressive persion (SP)" declarations which in turn would instantly allow for officially anctioned "reconnection" and that would do Scientology a world of good public relations. In my hindsight view back at my 27 years as a staffer in the movement I see Scientology is truly a problamatic operation due to the layers of Catch 22 rules and 1984isms that L. Ron Hubbard embedded into the setup.
Chuck Beatty, ex staffer Scientology movement, 1975-2003,
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh

Look for Anonymous in Red Square, coming this week!

Correction: We had about 200, but were spread all over Dupont

www.anonymousdc.com

see scientolgy on the web and look at worldwide activities and see for yourself if it's for you.

Scientology IS worse than you think
consider attending the next event
on May 10th.

regards
Arnie Lerma
www.Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK for our
frends and family to
get them out of scientology
before they end up here:
www.whyaretheydead.net

for more information on Scientology, visit:

http://www.scientology.org

All of these protests remind me of the beginnings of Christianity, where many made fun of its beliefs (what, you're eating a dead guy's body and drinking his blood?). Many still do, and yet there are still faithful believers. Same with Scientology. I hate when others tell me what I believe. Ask a Scientologist what Scientology is about. I wouldn't ask a Hindu what Catholicism is about.

Christianity doesn't have feel-good-levels, and you don't have to pay and take classes to learn about their "Genesis." Ask a Scientologist about Xenu, and they either wont tell you, or they have no idea that a sci-fi writer decided to REALLY cash in on his works.... Where is Xenu on the scientology homepage???? Oh, I see, after using the google search engine provided on the site, I find I have to buy a book or video for that knowledge.... Imagine that.

actually Domino, you have to pay for First Communion, Confirmation, etc. etc. Christianity isn't free. And people choose to pay what they pay in Scientology. Also, you can co-audit the services in Scientology, aka. for free. I and MANY others have done this. The Church has many ways to offer Services if you can't pay for them. Also, Scientology is in the esoteric category of religion. This continues the themes found in many ancient religions, and can even be found in many Buddhist and Hindu traditions, especially in the "empowerment" ceremonies of Bon and Tibetan Buddhism. You also have to pay for this. Christianity, Scientology, Islam, Hinduism, etc. etc. all have differing ways and methods to reveal their beliefs and to offer spiritual experiences.

Last time I checked, they gave out bibles for free, they even have them in hotel rooms. Also, there are a LOT of people who didn't get Confirmation, etc..., but are still Christians. How would that work in Scientology? If Dianetics is so great why don't you give it out to everyone. I could easily get a free bible, torah, koran, etc, BUT NOT DIANETICS!

Ok, see what scientologists have to say. Chuch Beatty (4th comment) was a scientologist for almost 30 years. Arnie Lerma (8th comment)was a scientologist for almost 20 years. Tory "Magoo" Christman (ToryMagoo44 on youtube) was a scientologist for about 30 years. All longer than our friend here. Why are they speaking out. They were all OTs, shouldn't they be perfect beings?

IF THERE WAS ONE OT IN SCIENTOLOGY YOU WOULD NOT BE READING THIS COMMENT.

Anonymous is Legion
Expect Us
www.whyweprotest.net

-Dianetics is available for free to read online. please check http://www.dianetics.org. There is also a free home study course through that website.
-I don't have to go through Scientology services to be a Scientologist either. There are MANY Scientologists that haven't been to auditing in a long time, or gone through other services, and are still believing Scientologists. In the same way, in Christianity, the sacraments are specific means to receive graces (at least in Catholicism and Orthodoxy). Baptism is especially important, and Confirmation is a means to receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Many Christians believe that you must be baptized to be considered a Christian. So, the concept of religious services and being considered a believer of a religion is more complicated than you make it. YES, you can be a believing Christian or Scientologist without participating in these services, however, they are specific means to receive specific benefits in both religions. As you can read the Bible, the Book of Mormon, etc. online for free through the various Churches that support these books, so too can you read Dianetics online. You can also go to a bookstore and purchase varying editions and copies of these same books.
-Those people are ex-Scientologists. Like I said, would I go to an ex-Catholic to find out what Catholicism is about? Would I read an ex-Catholic website or forum to find out what Catholics believe? No. There are MANY dissatisfied Catholics that convert to other religions or give religion up all together. Are they models of the Catholic religion? No. So sure, they might've been in Scientology for decades, yet they were dissatisfied. Please visit the numerous anti-Catholic websites that go on about the priest scandals, coverups, worshipping idols, worshipping Mary, and how they became disillusioned by the religion (note: I do not believe that Catholics worship idols or Mary, these are examples used by many anti-Catholics/fundamentalist Christians). And many of these ex-Catholics were in the religion for decades as well.

see above for my comments on esoteric religions. Even if the Xenu story exists, that really isn't a point of contention, because MANY of the religious stories of Christianity, Hinduism, etc. have fantastical plots. Does that discredit them? No. Should I believe that somehow a piece of bread and wine turns into the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ? Religion is founded on beliefs that are not in the "normal" realm of every day life. We only ask people to respect our religious views, yet by attempting to reveal our sacred beliefs and practices (in the same way that people have attempted to reveal the secret/sacred temple beliefs and practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), you only do a deservice. Thus, the whole concept of Anonymous is sometimes a fallacy.

You have every right to believe in alien ghosts if you want to. Its the fact that you don't tell 90% of the membership that is worrying.

The best answer I've ever been given is was that it was for their own protection. Last time I checked learning about Jesus didn't kill you. No other religion hides its doctrine. If I can read the bible, koran, etc in religious studies, why can't I read the OT levels?

Also, you don't understand what Anonymous is, its more of an expression of internet culture than an organization. Sociologists are already writing papers on it, but I think the closest thing to something understood is the stand alone complex.

Maybe if Scientology had been willing to talk at the beginning, none of this would have happened.

I posted last time the Hoya did an article about Anonymous, and I received several of responses from people with questions. I again extend my offer. Rbw22@law.georgetown.edu or rbw22@georgetown.edu.

The best way to scare people is to confuse them. The easiest way to confuse people is to throw terms and ideas around without once explaining what they are. These are the tactics used by Anonymous, and trust me, these are tactics used intentionally for the purpose of scaring people, not informing them. If you want to know about Anonymous please do your research, I think their philosophy and tactics speak for themselves. Here is a news report about them. After you watch it, make sure to read their comments and their response videos. Their productions are more revealing then the news program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNO6G4ApJQY

I am not trying to scare you, I would like to give you some true data and hopefully lift the confusions here. I am not looking to proselytize, or convince you, but I would like for you to actually have the data and make up your own mind.

I am currently a Law Student here at Georgetown. I am also a Scientologist. I have been one since I was born, and I have participated in my religion very closely. I am trained in the technology underpinning our application of Ethics which covers this area of “disconnection.” I am OT V, and despite what some of you may think, I am far from perfect- just ask my girlfriend. I graduated from UCLA with majors in Philosophy and Political Science, so I also have a firm background in the subject of Ethics from an academic perspective.

Disconnection is a real policy— but it is not the policy that has been described here thus far and only under very specific situations is it ever used. Interesting enough, I have seen a pattern here of people who participate in this group called “Anonymous.” They categorically get the data wrong about important ideas in my religion. This case of disconnection is a perfect example.

First, there are several policy letters (references authored by L. Ron Hubbard about ways one can deal with situations in life, e.g. how to effectively get out of debt, etc…) that deal with a subject matter called “PTS Technology.” Now, PTS stands for Potential Trouble Source. When an individual is making mistakes, getting sick, etc… they are a source of potential trouble for the people around them and themselves. For example, if there was a police officer who didn’t like to ask questions, he would be a source of trouble for their police force. Or, if a doctor was sick, he would be a source of potential trouble at a hospital.

Now, in the course of L. Ron Hubbard’s research he discovered that if you are around individuals who dislike what you are doing, it affects you in a negative way. For example, if I joined a basketball team and my girlfriend told me it was stupid and refused to go to my games, I may start to rethink being part of the team. It is not that basketball is bad or wrong, it is just that every time I play, I feel a little sad and I start missing passes and shots, etc… It affects you. I am sure you can think of a time you started doing something, ran into some person who nay–sayed your ideas and goals, and then your ambition withered. Well, L. Ron Hubbard developed an entire breath of technology that aims to resolve this situation. Essentially, the first thing you do is spot the person who is harassing / affecting you. In the above example, that would be my girlfriend. Then, after you spot that person, you handle the situation. Now, this step of handling involves talking and commutating with the person to resolve the problem. So, back to the basketball example… after I played a horrible game, I go home and see my girlfriend. I realize, hey, she is really giving me a hard time on this basketball thing (I spot her). Then I start talking…. I learn that she hates me being part of the team because her favorite show “top chef” is on during the games and she really would love to watch them with me. I laugh, and say, “hey I got an idea. Why don’t you come to the games with me, cheer me on, and then we can watch the show on TIVO when we get home. That way we don’t have to bother with commercials.” There you go. Situation resolved, handled, done. I am no longer suffering in my basketball team.

Now, lets increase the complexity- thus far we the first two steps: Locate and Handle. And for 99.9% of all situations this is what you do. In fact, in some situations it is all you can do. Let’s take for example a common situation in Scientology. A person we will call Bill reads Dianetics, and thinks it is an incredible book. He walks into a Church and says, “I want some of this auditing stuff. I want to go Clear and get rid of my reactive mind.” The Church says, “come on in,” and starts him on a program to do that. Bill is humming along, and then one day he talks to his sister who tells him all these horrible things about Scientology that she read on some website. Bill comes in, scared out of his mind and says, “what is all this craziness…” Someone sits down with him and answers all his concerns. We do this by showing Bill the actual writings of L. Ron Hubbard so he can interpret for himself what Scientology is all about. We then ask him where he heard all this from. He tells us about his sister. We then say, “Bill, you need to resolve this situation with your sister.” So Bill goes and talks to his sister and tries to resolve her issues. This often takes several meetings, and lots of books and data. Usually the sister goes, “oh wow, that website was dead wrong… I am so sorry.” Situation handled. This is very common.

Now what happens if you cannot handle? I mean no matter what I do, my girl friend is just violently against me playing basketball? Well, I need to then make an important decision: do I play basketball, stay with my girlfriend, or just keep on with basketball ignoring my girlfriend? Well, obviously, basketball is not that important to me, so I would probably stay with my girl. But what if it wasn’t basketball, but a religion? What if, even after Bill answers all his sister’s questions, she continues to lambaste his decision to be a Scientologist. Well, Bill would probably ask his sister to stop harassing his religious choice. The sister, then either stops or keeps going. She might run around to the rest of family telling them that Bill is part of a cult, and that he is going to do all these horrible things. She spreads any and every strange imagined rumor on the internet, and scares the rest of his family. I know this sounds crazy. Most sisters are willing to let their brothers be a Scientologist, or at least stop harassing them about it.

At this point, after all avenues of handling have been exhausted, Bill would need to decide if he is going to disconnect. Now, if we are talking about a sister, there is no way a disconnection would occur. I mean we are talking family here. More likely, Bill would need to find out some way to work something out with his sister. But, if for some reason, his sister is a raving lunatic about Scientology, Bill is going to have to decide if he is going to be a Scientologist or continue to talk with his sister. L. Ron Hubbard lays out the exact characteristics of personalities who simply do not want people to improve. They are called Anti-Social Personalities or Suppressive Persons. They are a rare group of people, and live and act by very specific ill-intentioned ways. They are fundamentally good, as is everyone, but they are living under certain pressures that causes them to suppress / bring down everyone around them. I am sure if you look back in your life, you can think of one of these types.

If Bill decides to disconnect that only means he stops communicating with his sister. It needs to be his choice, and he needs to do it without upsetting anyone involved. Usually, if the sister is so against Scientology, she will not want anything to do with he brother anyway. Fundamentally, because the sister refuses and violently opposes Bill’s personal decision, she is the one destroying their relationship. This rarely happens, and I hope this explains why it ever does.

Honestly, this is a very short synopsis and very cursory examination of a very technical and elaborate set of technology. There is an important advanced course anyone can take at any Scientology organization called the PTS/SP Course. There is also a basic course called Overcoming the Up’s and Down’s in Life Course which goes over the basic precepts in this technology.

I recently visited the restroom at Lauinger to find flyer pasted to the stall door. It said that you could ask a Christian, Jew or Muslim about their respective religions and they would respond. It then said, id you ask a Scientologist, they’ll ask for your checkbook first. Well, in that vein, please make checks payable to…. .come on. This is a non-profit and religious organization. Point to that person making money, and I will point you to their tax returns; it is not a for profit organization, the IRS after several dozen audits will and has testified to that fact. No one is getting rich off this religion save the Scientologist who uses the important and insightful technology developed L. Ron Hubbard to become more able and successful.

Like before, if you have any questions, please email me. I offer you any information or knowledge I possess, and if you would like meet in person, I also offer a free cup of Joe at the Midnight Mug and few minutes of my time. Honestly, if you are serious about getting the truth, ignore people like me and Anonymous, and go read the primary source for yourself. The books are all in the library and they are free. I know it takes a uniquely dedicated researcher to go read the source; but worry not, for millions and millions have walked the path before you, and they made up their own mind. Cheers.

Brent Wisner
Georgetown Law '10

anonymousnow, I will say again, please understand the concept of an esoteric religion (or initiatory religion) before you criticize Scientology. Read my above comments to see more views on this. The vast majority of Scientology doctrines are NOT hidden. And I have a pretty good understanding of Anonymous, because I read both the Enturbulation forums and the DC Anonymous forums (and the non-Anonymous but anti-Scientology OCMB forums). I have been for a number of years, including before I actually became a Scientologist. The Bible vs. OT levels argument doesn't work. In Gnostic Christian sects, you could read the Bible, but you wouldn't be privy to the Gnostic aspects of Christianity until you were "initiated". Similar principles. Scientology is NOT in the same religious tradition as Christianity. In Hindiusm, you can read the Vedas all you want, but many traditions includes beliefs not known by general believers.

So no, the best answer isn't that it is "for their protection", it is because that is the religious tradition we believe in, and that certain information won't make sense until you are fully taught in the tradition to an appropriate level. Do some research and you will find this isn't unique to Scientology or religious you consider a cult.

TL;DR
Too Long, Didn't Read

No one reads your giant wall of text, not that anyone reads the comments anyway.

Also, I noticed you didn't answer AnonymousNOW's question as why Scientology refuses to open a dialog with Anonymous.

Anonymous has decided to authorize yet another diplomatic envoy to the Church of Scientology. Should they wish it they may contact us at AnonymousEnvoy@yahoo.com to arrange a friendly meeting on neutral ground. We do not expect them to accept this offer, as our previous communications have all been ignored. We would just like to let them know that Anonymous is always open to discussion.

We believe that everyone should do their own research and make their own decisions, all we do is the other half of the story.

David Goldstein
High Arbiter,
Anonymous Capitol Legion
AWOCP

see, both of your comments are funny to me.

1) the fact that TLDR said he doesn't read the comments is testimony to the fact that you at least won't listen to what individual Scientologists have to say, or what we really believe. Thank you for not listening to us. Also you focus on that one part of his response, and ignore the rest of OUR responses. Thank you.

2) I don't know what you mean by Scientology not opening dialog with Anonymous, but both I and Mr. Wisner are willing to discuss our religion with anyone, as we have obviously demonstrated on this thread. We speak for ourselves and the religion we believe in. So thank you for also ignoring the wealth of information we also posted. Also, in the same vein that the Catholic Church ignores anti-Catholic websites and forums, I find it not surprising that the Church of Scientology ignores anti-Scientology websites and forums. The phenomenon that you refer to is not unique to Scientology but is found in relation to many "mainstream" religions.

3) David, are you speaking for Anonymous? I thought Anonymous had no leaders, what is this High Arbiter I see? Anyway, see above for comments in relation to your own. Wisner and I speak for ourselves in relation to our religion. If you feel like discussing it with us, as individuals professing belief in the Scientology religion, then feel free to do so. And again, anti-Catholic websites are overwhelmingly ignored by the Catholic Church, and the same is done with the Church of Scientology, as we both believe that both websites have erroneous information in relation to our religions (I constantly use Catholicism as a reference b/c we do attend a Catholic university). Anonymous is not an official "organization" so I fail to understand why you portray it as such, especially when it professes to be so individual-focused.

And I guess this post is futile, because, according to TLDR, our posts are too long, and he didn't read them. This theme is evident in many other areas (i.e. forums). Thank you for saying that we are wasting our time trying to show our beliefs, b/c you aren't reading what we say.

I get the feeling that Scientologists aren't listening to US or to what we really believe. We have made our points very clear, we have spoken to the media, we have been explained in depth and with utter clarity in the Baltimore City Paper and in return, we get a repackaged message from the top calling free speech advocates "terrorists" "criminals" and that our "leaders" are going to get us all in trouble. It's like speaking to a brick wall, must be all the TR-0.

I'd have to disagree with you when you say that the Catholic Church ignores critical websites or critical information. In fact, when the Catholic Church was discovered to harbor child molesters and people rose to protest against the Church itself, those in power listened. They recognized the abuses, they took the time to listen to the concerns, and they made changes in order to protect the people. Though I suppose the children's RPF is alright because forced labor camps for minors and a restriction of their access to education is so much better than molestation. Everything is on a degree of evil, right?

Perhaps your communication tech has failed, which is why you can't seem to communicate well with true OTs. If the Cult of Scientology had Operating Thetans, then their superpowers and superior intellect would make sure you never would see protesters, get sick, or (scandal of all scandals) leave the Cult and speak out against the abuses they've seen. Something must be wrong if almost 50% of all Scientology members leave the cult. Guess the OT powers never materialized.

And let us look at true communication and what is OT tech. Anonymous is operating on communicating between individuals, in pairs, in groups, and then moving to take actions into ideas and succeed. Anonymous itself, it's unorganized mass of pure communication at the most direct level without any barriers of race, gender, or any other prejudicial information clouding the "tech," is the true OT.

If you refuse to do your own research and look at critical sites on the cult of Scientology, then how about the legal documents that have been through court? You can't say they're tainted with bias or prejudiced without going into conspiracy theory. I hope you do take a look, everyone should be able to see both sides of an issue. Restricting people's ability to access the internet or read certain books is a crime and does nothing but keep people obedient. Don't be afraid to just look.

Dave,

Thank you for again ignoring what two Scientologists have said on this article (and what Wisner said on the other Hoya Scientology article). Last time I checked, we have been communicating with the other people on this thread.

You aren't really understanding the point of the Operating Thetan state. Wisner is an OT V, I believe he commented briefly on being OT on the other article.

Please do a search for Scientology blogs and see that many of us Scientologists answer questions sincerely about our views and practices. Anonymous tends to paint us all with a broad brush, as if we are blinded, brainwashed, oblivious people.

You really ignored what I said above. Quote: "I read both the Enturbulation forums and the DC Anonymous forums (and the non-Anonymous but anti-Scientology OCMB forums). I have been for a number of years, including before I actually became a Scientologist."

The Catholic Church, as I stated above, ignores anti-Catholic/ex-Catholic websites, and with good reason, because they contain false information and often over exaggerated information from sensationalist dissatisfied former Catholics (or even people that were never Catholic but decide it's "cool" to hate the Catholic Church). All those fundamentalist Christian websites are largely ignored, which is what I was talking about, not critical information in general. There is a world of difference between the priest abuses and addressing anti-Catholic arguments.

The communicative measures employed by Anonymous are also not as benign as you may portray them. Reading Enturbulation and the DC Anonymous forums, I see how people want to go in to our Churches, pretending to be interested in Scientology, attempting to record Church videos, disrupting book selling events (where we try to *communicate* our beliefs, and yet Anonymous is disrupting this communication), trying to mess up stats, getting into the security frequencies at the Church of Scientology Celebrity Centre, etc. etc. This doesn't even begin to address the measures I've seen discussed on Anonymous forums.

So yes, I do agree that both sides should be researched, and I and MANY other Scientologists have and still do this. I have read the xenu.net website. I have read A Piece of Blue Sky, The Road to Xenu, The Total Freedom Trap, etc. I have watched many of those videos on Youtube and Xenu TV. And I am still a Scientologist. This is like a Catholic who reads Chick tracts, reads the KJV-only forums, reads those books on how the Catholic Church is a cult that worships Mary and a piece of bread (I really love when people attempt to tell religious people what they REALLY believe), and still is a believer.

The dialogs I have had on this article and elsewhere shows that perhaps its Anonymous people that don't listen to us and what we really believe. The above post shows that we are constantly painted with a broad brush.

http://www.scientology.org

Also, any specific questions may be asked to me at hoyascientologist@gmail.com. Please only email me if you have sincere questions, not anything like "so how many space aliens are attached to your body" or "are you friends with Xenu".

So how many space aliens are attached to your body mr. no-name?

thank you for your vital input to the discussion.

the maturity of Anons always becomes evident after a while. Thank you for your quality post.

Anonymous does it for the lulz, and has always been against wackos like Hal Turner and now the Church of Scientology for censorship and taking themselves waaay too seriously. ~desu

Brent,

In your example, you have the brother disconnection by choice from his opposed sister.

However, from my understanding, the Church can declare people suppresive persons and make it mandatory for a Scientologist to dissconnect from that person in order to remain a Scientologist in good standing.

What would happen if Bill's sister is given an SP declare, and Bill chooses not to disconnect from her?

Thank you for your thoughful response.

I understand that these "Anonymous" folks are continuing to protest, and I applaud them for their courage. Even the most cursory review of the history of Scientology clearly shows how they have harrassed, intimidated and harmed any critic.

Looks like the time that they can succeed by doing that is over if this group of un-identifiable protesters just keeps coming back again and again - I mean, how would they even know if it was the same people?

So, now after 50+ years some Scientologists claim they want to "discuss" their "beliefs"? This smells of the failure of their traditional tactics - they never bothered to engage in dialogue before when they could silence any critical voice with even the threat of violence or lawsuits.

Is there another protest scheduled?