Ambassador Barbara Bodine joined the School of Foreign Service as the director of the Institute for the Study of Diplomacy on July 1. The former ambassador to Yemen left the United States Foreign Service after a 33-year career, which included a stint as administrator of the Baghdad area in 2003. Bodine revealed her plans for a resurgent ISD and reflected on her eventful career as a diplomat in the Middle East.

What drew you to Georgetown specifically? You’ve been a resident at several universities and had a long career in the Foreign Service, but why Georgetown, and why the Institute for the Study of Diplomacy?

It’s a world-class university. I’ve worked with the institute off and on for a very long time now with several of the previous directors. I’ve always been an admirer of the institute. And to be honest when somebody told me that this directorship was coming open, I got my application in as fast as I possibly could. The mission of the institute is something I deeply believe in and to be associated with this university? Absolutely.

What exactly do you envision the role of the ISD to be? How would you characterize the institute’s role in the past few years and do you see it moving in a different direction?

I think rather than talking retrospectively I’d like to talk prospectively. The two operative parts of the title are “study of” and “diplomacy.” The short version is, my first goal is to reweave the institute into the School of Foreign Service and into Georgetown University. I do think over the last couple years it went further and further away. Most students didn’t know it existed, a lot of faculty didn’t know it existed, and to the extent that people knew it existed, they didn’t know what it did. So, to bring its profile back, how do you do that?

I want to do some working groups on ongoing major issues and one that we’ve talked about … is doing something like, “How do you manage Putin’s Russia?”

What brings you to academia after having a very active role in the Foreign Service, in policy and practice?

As opposed to going to work for a defense contractor and making a lot of money? I think, first of all, I still love the policy world and policy issues, and if you can’t do it in the government, being at a school of public policy where everyone else is as interested in the same things as you are is a great environment. I truly enjoy working with students. … I had a terrific career. It’s time for somebody else to go off and have that career and if I can share some lessons and insights and help the way that people helped me when I was a junior officer, that’s terrific. There’s a little bit of handing the torch off.

Could you tell me a little bit about your career in the Foreign Service?

On one level, I didn’t know what I was getting into. I’m from southern California and I didn’t have a lot of experience with the world of diplomacy. So I liked the idea of diplomacy, I liked the idea of the Foreign Service, but I didn’t know what it was. I did know that I liked policy, I liked international policy, I didn’t want to be an observer to it. At the end of the day, the decisions are made in the government. That’s where it actually happens. Influence, information analysis systems, all of the stuff coming from everybody else, absolutely. But the actual decision — I wanted to be a part of that. I wanted to make a difference. I ended up with a life and a career that was so much better, so much more fun, so much more meaningful than I could ever have imagined.

You were in Iraq or Kuwait during the Gulf War, right?

In the Gulf War I was in Kuwait when the Iraqis invaded. I was a hostage for five months. The U.S. government was able to negotiate with the Iraqi government for all the dependents and nonessential personnel to leave Kuwait and Iraq and go home. But we had 3,000 Americans trapped in the city and so the ambassador and I said, “We’re not going to leave.”

We weren’t quite sure what we were going to be able to do but we felt it was immoral to get out, so we stayed. The Iraqis were not happy so they locked us in our embassy compound and cut off the water, food, electricity, plumbing and everything else. We spent five months that way. But we got every single American out.

We had a palate of tuna fish. For five months, I had tuna fish for lunch and for dinner every day for 137 days.

I have not eaten tuna fish since. My cats do not get tuna flavored treats. I have a tuna-free home. Even today I just can’t do it.

You were in Kuwait during the invasion and were ambassador to Yemen around the USS Cole bombing and also you administrated the Baghdad area in 2003. Those were under three different presidents, three different policies and different parties. The Foreign Service is supposed to be apolitical, so how do you balance all those different situations?

I was also in Baghdad during the Iran-Iraq War. I think the Foreign Service is apolitical. When you become a Foreign Service officer, you take an oath of office which is actually the same one the president takes. You take your oath of office to uphold the Constitution. You’re not taking an oath to the president, or to a party, you’re taking an oath, as someone explained to me, to “we the people” and your job is to serve the national interest. … There are still these broader national security goals, but if I go in and I am the representative of the U.S. government, the people I’m talking to don’t really care what Barbara Bodine’s views are. They want to know what the U.S. government policy is, and that’s what you’re representing, and that’s also what you’re trying to further sometimes by being very candid back to Washington.

Because you administrated in Iraq in 2003, what do you predict will happen in the near future and do you have any policy prescriptions?

Iraq is going to be with us for a very long time. … I don’t think anyone wants it to divide. I do agree with those that say the primary problem is a political one and I would say that in addition to the very real question about invading in the first place, how many troops we invaded with, did we have enough troops to stabilize the country? No. Did we have a plan for the day after? No. Did we make some fundamental mistakes like sectarianizing the government? Yes. So a lot of these go back to 2003.

The other issue is a political-diplomatic issue that Maliki was not held, I think, strenuously enough to create an inclusive and representative government, and he became increasingly sectarianized, increasingly despotic to the point where when ISIS came in, they were leaning on an open door.

You were also very intent on advancing women’s education and other rights, what do you foresee in that?

The status and role of women in the Middle East has always been better than portrayed here, and it’s also been getting better. Has it reached some sort of nirvana? No, and neither have we. When we have this thing down perfect, I will be far more judgmental about other people, but we have a long way to go, too. Women today are remarkably better educated than their mothers, certainly their grandmothers. They’re much more involved in working outside the home than the home, they have a far greater political role than before. It has changed fundamentally. Is there going to be pushback? Absolutely. … There’s a long way to go, but it’s gone much further than we give them credit for. The fact that women were so visible in the Arab Spring is actually a reflection of changes that started 20 years ago. These were the daughters of the women who had first pushed through, who thought “I have a perfect right to be on the frontlines of the Arab Spring.”

I’m always cautious, but I’m generally optimistic.

Did you experience pushback being a woman in such a high position in the Middle East?

No. I think it’s been overblown very badly. I ended up spending over 30 years in the Middle East. I would not have done that if I wasn’t effective, and I didn’t enjoy it. The fact is that the Middle East bureau for decades had the highest percentage of women officers in every single embassy.

Do you plan on staying at the ISD for a while?

That’s a question for the dean. I plan on staying for a while. I took my last job for a year, and I ended up staying for seven. I joined the Foreign Service for 10 and stayed for 33.